Shooters....please step inside!!

[Jethro]

I need some thoughts or opinions on something. Ive stepped outside my project thread to get as many thoughts as I can.
I posted a pic of a baseline group. The group strang horizontally. I just assumed it was because of the wide front post. Today, I mounted a scope to confirm. Still stringing horizontal.
To confirm it wasn't me, I put the scope back on my 457, and shot a 5 shot group (after re-zeroing).
Same bags, same scope, same ammo, same distance, same conditions.
What causes a rife to string horizontal???
Any help would be appreciated.

Pics will be...
Iron sights
Scope
457

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[snakester50]

Too many variables, ammo , gun need cleaning ??? . If scope was loose seems like it would be everywhere no pattern at all . Kinda puzzling but some of these experts can surely help you.

[Huntaholic]

That's a tough one. Could be a bedding issue, change of grip pressure, how tight youre pulling into your shoulder, the list is almost endless and extremely frustrating.
I don't THINK its shoulder pressure though. When I was chasing a load for my 375 H&H I shot several different powders, bullets, weights, etc.... and my groups were stringing vertically up to as much as 3 inches. Horizontally the groups weren't over half an inch wide. After weeks of this crap I finally decided to just sit down at the bags, rest the rifle on the bags, and not even touch it with my left hand, basically just letting the big dog eat and jump wherever it wanted to. To my surprise and amazement, that gun started shooting tiny little bughole groups! What it amounted to was I was changing the amount of pressure I was putting into my shoulder with the stock.

[Jethro]

That's a tough one. Could be a bedding issue, change of grip pressure, how tight youre pulling into your shoulder, the list is almost endless and extremely frustrating.
I don't THINK its shoulder pressure though. When I was chasing a load for my 375 H&H I shot several different powders, bullets, weights, etc.... and my groups were stringing vertically up to as much as 3 inches. Horizontally the groups weren't over half an inch wide. After weeks of this crap I finally decided to just sit down at the bags, rest the rifle on the bags, and not even touch it with my left hand, basically just letting the big dog eat and jump wherever it wanted to. To my surprise and amazement, that gun started shooting tiny little bughole groups! What it amounted to was I was changing the amount of pressure I was putting into my shoulder with the stock.

Bedding is definitely a possibility. As of right now, the barrel isnt floated, and isnt even centered in the channel. Can the trigger cause the horizontal stringing. The trigger, as I described before, isnt the best. It has a lot of take-up, hits a wall, then loads up with quite a bit of travel before it breaks. Best described as "like a Glock". Or...kind of like a double action...but not quite that bad.

[MUP]

Yes, the trigger can most assuredly cause horizontal stringing, to be more precise, it's the canting as a result of pulling on a hard trigger, or even trigger form (wrapping your finger around the trigger instead of just the pad of your trigger finger touching the trigger). I'd work on one thing at a time tho, and like hunt said, I'd float and bed that stock first, then work on the trigger and see where that gets you.

[Longrange]

My 452 American needs zero pressure. It shoots best when you rest it and touch only the trigger. I can make it shoot very differently by changing grip, pressure on my thumb behind the bolt. It’s very sensitive.

[FLTENNHUNTER1]

Shoot it left handed and see what it does.

[FLTENNHUNTER1]

https://www.sniperforums.com/threads/ho ... ing.38201/

[Jethro]

https://www.sniperforums.com/threads/ho ... ing.38201/

I read the thread at link....thanks.

Couple things...

The front sight is slightly canted to the right. As such, they compensated for it by drifting the rear sight to the right...quite a bit. Pretty sure this was done by manufacturer as it was staked in that position.
The barreled action is/was in the stock on an angle....from left to right looking from rear. Lots of contact along right side of barrel channel.
The trigger is horrible. The trigger pivot pin, as well as the sear mechanism has a bunch of slop...massive side to side wobble.
The hammer spring is unreal...
Ive got everything apart and am looking for the "work around" parts to fix...ie, oversized pins to remove as much wobble as I can. Ive also straightened the barreled action in the stock....bedded and free-floated.
Im not sure what to do on the hammer/striker spring. Some say a 10/22 rebound spring will work....seems light to me. The stock spring feels like it has a 50+ pound per inch rate (its crazy).
Im just piddling along with it...as I get time.

I appreciate all the suggestions....keep them coming.

[Huntaholic]

https://www.sniperforums.com/threads/ho ... ing.38201/

I read the thread at link....thanks.

Couple things...

The front sight is slightly canted to the right. As such, they compensated for it by drifting the rear sight to the right...quite a bit. Pretty sure this was done by manufacturer as it was staked in that position.
The barreled action is/was in the stock on an angle....from left to right looking from rear. Lots of contact along right side of barrel channel.
The trigger is horrible. The trigger pivot pin, as well as the sear mechanism has a bunch of slop...massive side to side wobble.
The hammer spring is unreal...
Ive got everything apart and am looking for the "work around" parts to fix...ie, oversized pins to remove as much wobble as I can. Ive also straightened the barreled action in the stock....bedded and free-floated.
Im not sure what to do on the hammer/striker spring. Some say a 10/22 rebound spring will work....seems light to me. The stock spring feels like it has a 50+ pound per inch rate (its crazy).
Im just piddling along with it...as I get time.

I appreciate all the suggestions....keep them coming.

That gun sounds like a train wreck! I enjoy fooling with them as long as I can make progress but yours sounds like theres a LLLLLOOOOOTTTTTT to be addressed!

[Jethro]

https://www.sniperforums.com/threads/ho ... ing.38201/

I read the thread at link....thanks.

Couple things...

The front sight is slightly canted to the right. As such, they compensated for it by drifting the rear sight to the right...quite a bit. Pretty sure this was done by manufacturer as it was staked in that position.
The barreled action is/was in the stock on an angle....from left to right looking from rear. Lots of contact along right side of barrel channel.
The trigger is horrible. The trigger pivot pin, as well as the sear mechanism has a bunch of slop...massive side to side wobble.
The hammer spring is unreal...
Ive got everything apart and am looking for the "work around" parts to fix...ie, oversized pins to remove as much wobble as I can. Ive also straightened the barreled action in the stock....bedded and free-floated.
Im not sure what to do on the hammer/striker spring. Some say a 10/22 rebound spring will work....seems light to me. The stock spring feels like it has a 50+ pound per inch rate (its crazy).
Im just piddling along with it...as I get time.

I appreciate all the suggestions....keep them coming.

That gun sounds like a train wreck! I enjoy fooling with them as long as I can make progress but yours sounds like theres a LLLLLOOOOOTTTTTT to be addressed!

Keep in mind...these are milsurps...when they were first imported, they sold for 49.00. They aren't perfect, but they have been here long enough for people to find "work arounds" to address the issues. They aren't CZs, but they are fun plinkers. I just want to see if I can "bring it around"..
Its just a project.

[Jethro]

Ok...I shot it again today, after a couple upgrades.
The new trigger/sear pivot pins made a huge difference in the trigger. Much better now.
Also, I bedded the action and floated the barrel....and got the cant out of it.
The original group was 1.3 inch... horizontal.
This new group is .9"...with the flyer. Take it out, and its a .6" group. At this point, I dont know how much is me. The irons arent the best for target work....and I wear progressive tri-focals. I cant see both sights and target clearly at same time. If I take them off...I cant see anything...
Maybe I will remount a scope on it and try again. As is...its plenty good for my intentions. Might just call it a done deal.

Oh yeah....I took the bolt apart and cleaned gunk and cosmolene out of it...smoother now. If anyone has one of these and decides to disassemble the bolt..... prepare to cuss...its tough.

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[MUP]

100 yards?! That's great!

[Huntaholic]

100 yards?! That's great!

Yeah if that's 100 yards with open sights, Id say that's FANTASTIC!

[Jethro]

100 yards?! That's great!

Pffft...who are you kidding? I wouldnt even be able to see the target, let alone hit it...
25 yrds

If I need to shoot 100 yrds with a 22...ill use my 457...

[MUP]

[Jethro]

Seriously...with these glasses, if I adjust them to where I can see the sights...the target is just a blur. If i adjust to see the target...sights are a blur.
I NEED glass!!!!

[Wiley]

I had similar vision, wore glasses and contacts until I had cataract surgery. I paid the $600 extra for each eye to get the premium lenses. Best money I ever spent.

[MUP]

I may have a scope buddy, what are you looking for?

[Jethro]

I may have a scope buddy, what are you looking for?

Nothing really.
My intention is to leave it iron sights. I can put a scope on it to check accuracy, but I wont leave it. Aside from a project, my intentions for this 22 is for garden pests...maybe a tractor gun...I jump a lot of rabbits when Im bush hogging in the fall. Also, the occasional yote.

Ive got a few more ammo types I want to try in it. Ive got some CB long match that I hope shoots good. That stuff is really quiet...would be good for not alerting the neighbors, etc.