Smokeless frustration

[JCodd]

So maybe it’s not a frustration. But I’m scratching my head. Got my cva scout out today to verify everything is a go. My load for this gun is 50 gr of h4198 and a 225 fury st2. Wool wad. First shot was 5” high. Looked at the scope and had 2” dialed in. So I’m 3” higher than I’m supposed to be. Send another to confirm. Cutting holes. So I’m off. Turn it down 5” and decide I want this gun 2” high at 100. Dialed it back up 2”. Nearly cut the bullseye. Sent another and I’m an inch low. I know this load is not an accuracy load. It’s about a 1.5-2” group. But basically it’s something my daughter can use and good woods load that doesn’t hurt to shoot. Should I try something hotter? Maybe around the 55 gr mark. Ran these over the chrony and had about a 200fps spread. That’s the frustration. ASG plug and modules. Fed 215 match primer.

[MUP]

I'd try leaving the scope set and shoot another group to verify the scope has settled. Sounds like it may not be tracking just right.

[JCodd]

I agree. And it was said while shooting turning knobs on that scope is out. Sucks too. It’s a good scope.

[Huntaholic]

What MUP said is the next step you need to try. Are you shooting full bore bullets sabotless? If using a sabot, you MUST let these guns cool between shots.

[JCodd]

No sabots. Full bore bullets. I’ll get it back out when I have more time.

[scat]

Not ruling out scope problems but that load is pressure starved. I just ran that load in Quickload and 51gr is a node but pressure is only 32kpsi which is, in my opinion, pressure starved. That is the reason for the high ES.
Options: Same bullet weight,

1) If you have access to n110, 36gr gets you 37kpsi and approx 2400 fps. Should be within 100 fps of your current 50gr load of h4198 but will be much more stable.

2) h4198 62gr gets you 45kpsi at approx 2700 fps
But that may be too much recoil for her.

[JCodd]

Not ruling out scope problems but that load is pressure starved. I just ran that load in Quickload and 51gr is a node but pressure is only 32kpsi which is, in my opinion, pressure starved. That is the reason for the high ES.
Options: Same bullet weight,

1) If you have access to n110, 36gr gets you 37kpsi and approx 2400 fps. Should be within 100 fps of your current 50gr load of h4198 but will be much more stable.

2) h4198 62gr gets you 45kpsi at approx 2700 fps
But that may be too much recoil for her.

I’m gonna add more powder. 55 grains should be me better results wouldn’t you think.

[Huntaholic]

Folks with far more knowledge than me are here now in this thread. Im sure you can get it figured out! Ive shot several smokeless MZS, in fact when I got my first one, a 10MLII, everybody I let try it ended up buying one! LOL In that rifle, my load is 47gr XMP5744, black mmp sabot, and a 250 gr xtp. A few years later I had Luke convert a model 700 for me. That one wears a 24in pacnor 45 cal bbl. My pet load in it is 62gr h4198, blue harvester sabot and a barnes 195gr bullet.

[JCodd]

Folks with far more knowledge than me are here now in this thread. Im sure you can get it figured out! Ive shot several smokeless MZS, in fact when I got my first one, a 10MLII, everybody I let try it ended up buying one! LOL In that rifle, my load is 47gr XMP5744, black mmp sabot, and a 250 gr xtp. A few years later I had Luke convert a model 700 for me. That one wears a 24in pacnor 45 cal bbl. My pet load in it is 62gr h4198, blue harvester sabot and a barnes 195gr bullet.

I’ve listened to Scott more than once talk about how well he liked his. Once scat got me squared away on my first I’ve tried my best to keep learning.

[Huntaholic]

Folks with far more knowledge than me are here now in this thread. Im sure you can get it figured out! Ive shot several smokeless MZS, in fact when I got my first one, a 10MLII, everybody I let try it ended up buying one! LOL In that rifle, my load is 47gr XMP5744, black mmp sabot, and a 250 gr xtp. A few years later I had Luke convert a model 700 for me. That one wears a 24in pacnor 45 cal bbl. My pet load in it is 62gr h4198, blue harvester sabot and a barnes 195gr bullet.

I’ve listened to Scott more than once talk about how well he liked his. Once scat got me squared away on my first I’ve tried my best to keep learning.

Scotts rifle is the only other one besides mine that Ive seen that could shoot 47gr of 5744. The other 4 or 5 that Ive worked up loads for all started blowing sabots at 45gr or so.

[Tennessee Lead]

Folks with far more knowledge than me are here now in this thread. Im sure you can get it figured out! Ive shot several smokeless MZS, in fact when I got my first one, a 10MLII, everybody I let try it ended up buying one! LOL In that rifle, my load is 47gr XMP5744, black mmp sabot, and a 250 gr xtp. A few years later I had Luke convert a model 700 for me. That one wears a 24in pacnor 45 cal bbl. My pet load in it is 62gr h4198, blue harvester sabot and a barnes 195gr bullet.

If I knew I could convert a 45-70 on my encore and shoot a Barnes bullet I would definitely consider going through with it. All the wad this and was that with a lead bomb turns me off

[JCodd]

Folks with far more knowledge than me are here now in this thread. Im sure you can get it figured out! Ive shot several smokeless MZS, in fact when I got my first one, a 10MLII, everybody I let try it ended up buying one! LOL In that rifle, my load is 47gr XMP5744, black mmp sabot, and a 250 gr xtp. A few years later I had Luke convert a model 700 for me. That one wears a 24in pacnor 45 cal bbl. My pet load in it is 62gr h4198, blue harvester sabot and a barnes 195gr bullet.

If I knew I could convert a 45-70 on my encore and shoot a Barnes bullet I would definitely consider going through with it. All the wad this and was that with a lead bomb turns me off

If you stayed with a sabot you could probably shoot those 195s out of it. Or get a custom barrel for your encore, get a sizing die and shoot full bore bullets. Wads are great for the most part. Nothing to be scared of

[scat]

Folks with far more knowledge than me are here now in this thread. Im sure you can get it figured out! Ive shot several smokeless MZS, in fact when I got my first one, a 10MLII, everybody I let try it ended up buying one! LOL In that rifle, my load is 47gr XMP5744, black mmp sabot, and a 250 gr xtp. A few years later I had Luke convert a model 700 for me. That one wears a 24in pacnor 45 cal bbl. My pet load in it is 62gr h4198, blue harvester sabot and a barnes 195gr bullet.

If I knew I could convert a 45-70 on my encore and shoot a Barnes bullet I would definitely consider going through with it. All the wad this and was that with a lead bomb turns me off

If you stayed with a sabot you could probably shoot those 195s out of it. Or get a custom barrel for your encore, get a sizing die and shoot full bore bullets. Wads are great for the most part. Nothing to be scared of

No matter the caliber, All of my sabotless hunting loads utilize a wool wad . The wad keeps powder away from moisture, maintains load pressure on powder, and fills the void between bullet and groove to negate pressure loss and promote obturation.. For sabotless, Barnes 250 TEZ and 275 XPB are great.

[Huntaholic]

Folks with far more knowledge than me are here now in this thread. Im sure you can get it figured out! Ive shot several smokeless MZS, in fact when I got my first one, a 10MLII, everybody I let try it ended up buying one! LOL In that rifle, my load is 47gr XMP5744, black mmp sabot, and a 250 gr xtp. A few years later I had Luke convert a model 700 for me. That one wears a 24in pacnor 45 cal bbl. My pet load in it is 62gr h4198, blue harvester sabot and a barnes 195gr bullet.

If I knew I could convert a 45-70 on my encore and shoot a Barnes bullet I would definitely consider going through with it. All the wad this and was that with a lead bomb turns me off

We can do this! I regret not having Luke send me the section of barrel he cut off of mine when he built it. THAT is the way to properly swedge bullets for shooting full bore because its the EXACT rifling you have in your barrel.

[scat]

I make a full form and smooth form dies for all my builds. That said, loading full form bullets is cumbersome when hunting. If you have a brake, it must be removed or make a special funnel that slips down thru the brake with the bullet nose captured in it so you can rotate the bullet and engage it in the rifling. Smooth forming is much better for hunting.

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